Everyone in the industry keeps saying it: “Skateboarding is in a funny place right now.”

With DVS’s renewed push, they are bringing in Lee Berman, a skater who spent more than a decade helping build the Converse CONS skate program, and I wanted to hear his take on this question: Can old skate shoe brands actually regain some of the market share they lost over the last decade?

It has been a while since DVS made any waves in skating. Is DVS really trying to become an active participant in skateboarding again?
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think it’s at the point now where it’s all systems go. We’re working on new products, signing riders, and have collabs in the works. I think it will be pretty reflective of the original DVS. Skateboarding was always and will always be our north star.

Why now? Isn’t the skate shoe market cooked?
I think a big reason it’s “cooked” is that everyone is fighting to be the biggest version of the same thing. When people start talking over each other to be the loudest voice in the room, it gives everyone a headache. I look at skateboarding and the culture around it the same way I look at music. There’s endless music out there. One could argue every corner is “cooked,” whether you’re streaming or digging through the crates, but there’s always room for someone who looks cool and sounds good. If we can make quality skate shoes, get them to the right places, and have a solid crew, I think this can be impactful over time.

When you’ve gone to shops, what have the reactions to DVS been like?
Shops are struggling right now, so it’s just about making DVS something they want to be a part of. The good thing about DVS is that it’s not a huge buy-in or commitment. If a shop wants to bring in eight pairs of shoes, we can do that. That’s a real appeal to shops. It’s very grassroots and there aren’t a lot of layers. If you need to talk to somebody, there are people for you to talk to.

“The good thing about DVS is that it’s not a huge buy-in or commitment. If a shop wants to bring in eight pairs of shoes, we can do that.”

I saw you brought Kerry Getz back, what was the thinking behind that?
When the company bought DVS from its previous owners, they went out to talk with our shops about DVS. The feedback was pretty much, “Hey, we don’t need DVS, but our memories of it are quite positive. For a long time the Kerry Getz shoe was our best selling shoe, so when you guys decide to rerelease that shoe, come talk to us.”

One of the sales guys at our company has a long-standing relationship with Kerry, and he saw on Instagram that Kerry was getting back into skateboarding. Not to dive too deep into Kerry’s personal life, but he’s been on quite the journey. So he hit him up like, “It looks like you’re back skating. You want some shoes to try out?” It went from there pretty organically to Kerry getting back in the mix.

We were already working on the Comanche LT, so the easiest thing to do first was make a colorway of that existing shoe inspired by one of his OG colorways. Then we started working on bringing back his original shoe. This spring, Kerry’s original shoe will be back, and it’s a one-to-one copy of what’s in everybody’s memory.

Lee Berman from Orchard’s “WISHBONE”

A lot of people feel like the skate industry is relying too much on the old guard. Do you feel like bringing back these old names hurts skating in any way?
I can see why some people would think that. Without naming names, if you’re looking at some of the larger rosters in skateboarding, it’s obvious who you’re talking about. I think if you spend a minute talking to Kerry it becomes clear pretty quickly this isn’t about money for him, he is doing this because he wants to be a part of skateboarding and use his body while he still has it, and I can assure you that it’s not taking away an opportunity from somebody else.

Somebody like Kerry has the ability to open up the brand to a new generation. He’s the gateway. We’re going to release Kerry’s shoe, do something at his shop Nocturnal, invite the kids, and then those kids will hopefully be inspired to be a part of things and identify with DVS. Bringing him back is only going to create more opportunities for core skate shops and for the next generation of kids, specifically where he’s from in the Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware region. I hope that future team riders will hold the same qualities, people immersed in their communities where DVS can be an ongoing part of what they’re doing, instead of just doing an event, packing up, and leaving.

So the idea is you get respected, proven skaters on the program first before putting on fresh faces?
There are so many great kids ripping Muni in Philly right now. They’re cool as fuck, and they deserve everything they get, but if nobody has heard of them outside their own scene, it’s still in its own little bubble. It’s not really going to drum up any feelings beyond that. Then you have Kerry, who has a deep legacy with the brand. That widens the aperture and hopefully brings more people in, and once the brand has that bigger reach, it becomes a platform to help elevate what those kids are doing.

But couldn’t you take a ripping local skater and produce videos and editorial? You know, build him up into a future name?
DVS is just in a different place. When I worked at Converse, we had kids like Zion Effs, Romell Torres, Dylan Mills, and we were in a position where we could build somebody up. Hell, getting to work with Louie [Lopez] all those years was a dream come true. But with DVS we need the legacy to get in the door. Skateboarding is a network, and when all these people saw Kerry back skating, they repost and support based on his contributions to skateboarding and the community. DVS couldn’t really do that with a local ripper yet, but it’s certainly part of the plan and will come in time.

“My goal is to create a space where each person has a true tie back into skateboarding and understands what is best for skateboarding.”

What do you think you would do differently with DVS based on what you learned at Converse?
I can only speak from my experience at Cons, but when I got there, there were skateboarders all the way to the top, sitting next to the CMO. Year by year those people started to leave until it got whittled down to just me and a few others. Eventually there was nobody left with a skate background, so there was nobody to advocate for skateboarding and we weren’t controlling our own destiny.

With DVS, my goal is to create a space where each person has a true tie back into skateboarding and understands what is best for skateboarding.

Why do you think it’s so hard for non-skaters to make good decisions on behalf of skaters?
Skaters are immersed in the space that we participate in. It’s this intertwined ecosystem, when a retail partner is unhappy or a media partner is unhappy in skateboarding, they call me and we try to rectify the situation. You run Jenkem and you want to talk to somebody at DVS you just text me and you get a response 30 seconds later. If you’re anybody in the skate industry, you have a direct line to somebody deep inside the trenches of a skate company. That’s not the way the rest of the world operates and that’s not to be taken for granted. Poor decisions get made because there are people at these big companies who make decisions that they never have to be accountable for.

That being said, I don’t think you necessarily have to be a skater. I have worked with non-skaters in the past with their hearts in the right place and a desire to learn and they’ve been great. Sometimes skateboarding involves not skateboarding. I think the bottom line is if you’re not going to contribute to the overall health of skateboarding, it’s going to catch up with you.

How do we know what happened with Converse won’t happen with DVS?
Of course the future of anything isn’t guaranteed, but I can say that what’s happening at CONS is a reflection of the overall health of Converse, and less about CONS itself.

Kerry Getz, DVS promo

It feels like big shoe brands are investing less heavily into skating recently. Do you think that creates an opportunity for smaller, skater-owned footwear brands to regain momentum?
For sure, because there’s so much low hanging fruit in the skateboard industry that larger brands aren’t going after. I don’t think it’s going to be easy, but there is totally room for smaller brands.

“Larger shoe brands are fighting over the same hundred doors in America. As we all know, there are a lot more skate shops than that.”

What do you mean by “low hanging fruit”?
There are a lot of smaller skate shops that can’t get [shoe] accounts and they’re not really being serviced. They might not be super influential based on where they are, but they are great shops and would love the opportunity to work closely with a brand. You could go somewhere like South America where they don’t even have Adidas, Nike, or Converse skate lines, but there are distributors and they’re willing to bring in 300 pairs of DVS shoes. A lot of the big brands won’t go after the 300 pairs. But you need to sell 300 to sell 3,000 to sell 30,000. And that’s because larger shoe brands are fighting over the same hundred doors in America. As we all know, there are a lot more skate shops than that.

Do you think DVS making distinctly skateboard-looking, old-school shoes is a lane that could get bigger again?
I read this interview recently with J Mascis where he said something like, “I heard Black Sabbath and I dropped out of society,” and that’s how it used to be with skateboarding. Skateboarding used to offer kids an alternate route, and it drew in people that wanted something different. That can be said with skate shoes as well. Now, a lot of skate shoes look like any other shoe, and it feels like skateboarding is just trying to mimic other stuff. That’s cool, and it’s always been a lane, but skate shoes now look like basketball shoes, like soccer shoes, like tennis shoes. The designs should pull inspiration, but in the end you have to give the world something different.

What are some skate shoes that you think deserve a comeback?
The DC archive is off the hook, man. If you could do the Mike Carroll’s or the Rick Howard’s or the Rudy Johnson’s, those are all super dope shoes. I also love seeing Fred Gall and Kenny Reed back in I-Paths.

What would you say to someone who thinks 90s shoes look like baked potatoes?
I love baked potatoes [laughs]. I think with DVS, much like DC, we will continue to have those heritage models because people are asking for them and they sell, but alongside of it will be slimmer, more contemporary versions of the skate shoe that you want to skate.

I heard a rumor a while ago that Steve Berra was behind some of the DVS program revamp, is that true?
Berra did the marketing of DVS through the Berrics, sort of like an agency. He had ties to the previous owners being based in St. Louis where he’s from. That was before I joined. DVS was very heavily tied to the Berrics at that time. But Berra’s agency contract ended June 1st and I started as an actual full-time employee on June 8. I’ve never had a conversation or been in the same room as Steve Berra. I can tell you that Steve Berra and The Berrics have no affiliation to DVS currently.

I think a lot of core skateboarding has a negative taste in their mouth for Steve Berra. I sort of have a policy of I don’t want to sit here and talk shit about somebody that I’ve never even spoken to before. I’m a child of the 90s, so all I know of the guy is his skating and it was dope.

“Coming to DVS was like putting my money where my mouth is.”

Coming from Converse and its insane team, did you have apprehension about putting your name on a legacy brand’s restart?
For me, coming to DVS was like putting my money where my mouth is. Boston is a great city when it comes to the footwear industry. I could be sitting around doing marketing plans for another footwear brand, but they don’t have skate programs. So much of my life and identity is skateboarding, and getting to contribute to something I love, I couldn’t see it any other way. DVS gave me an opportunity where I could continue to do that.

Interview by: Ian Michna
Photos Courtesy of: DVS Shoes and Mike Heikkila
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